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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 16, 2010 5:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

The crusades were a direct response to the Muslim invasion of Europe. Yes the Church sanctioned them but at that point in history the Church in Europe was much more than a religious organization. In today's world they would be a combination of the UN, US Fed, IMF, Red Cross and Salvation Army in addition to being the Holy See. Remember this was the end of the Dark Ages. Western civilization broke down at the end of the Roman Empire and the Roman Catholic Church was the only surviving entity. Enough history let's just say the Crusades were no different than any other war, they were about power and money. PERIOD

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 16, 2010 1:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

There is a problem here...to say that you can divorce the PR from the traditional desires of human kind is to demean the whole exercise. It's like saying, "Hitler was just about power and money"...

C'mon; you know better.

What the folks did in the name of the Church in the New World was NOT entirely about money and power. The folks busy converting people against their will were not in it for that...likewise with the crusades.

Not really sure if you are defending the Church or burying it though...

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jan 16, 2010 7:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

"The crusades were a direct response to the Muslim invasion of Europe."

Bzzzd, sorry wrong! Not only that but the Crusaders destroyed Constantinople and the Byzantine Empire.

The Crusades were based on lies to the gullible. Sound familiar?

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 17, 2010 5:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

"The Crusades were based on lies to the gullible. Sound familiar?"

Don't be so gullible it was a war just like all the others. The Muslims invaded Spain and then France starting in 711. Europe was in the midst of the Dark Ages and had no armies to resist the invaders. Over time they built up their armies and stopped the Muslims at Tours in 732. Eventually they pushed them out of France and northern Spain. It was then that they decided to take the fight to the Arab homeland by organizing the Crusades. The Muslims were finally pushed out of Spain in 1492.

The Muslims took Constantinople in 1453. They laid siege to Vienna in 1529 but failed to take the city. This ended 800 years of Muslim wars against Europe. There was all kind of intrigue through out this period, Europeans and Arabs aligning and dividing their loyalties based on perceived or real opportunities for power and money just like any other war.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jan 18, 2010 12:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

Ahk, how could I forget Islamic Spain, Sicily, and Italy, and the transfer of culture that caused the birth of the Renaissance, Humanism, Scholasticism, and the Enlightenment?

I still disagree with the direct part "The crusades were a direct response to the Muslim invasion of Europe." I should be more precise, as should you.

See here for some things from 1200:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 18, 2010 5:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

There was an 800 year war conducted between Islam and the west on the continent of Europe and throughout the Mediterranean. The Crusades were part of that war. The direct association of these events could not be clearer.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jan 18, 2010 8:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

And the bloodthirsty worldwide expansion for 500 years after the Reconquest is a direct response to what?

Yes the Great Game has gone on for longer than that, perhaps back earlier than Jesus himself who himself opposed Western idolatry and imperialism.

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 19, 2010 4:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

And what "bloodthirsty worldwide expansion" would that be?

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jan 20, 2010 3:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

Have you heard of colonialism, you know, the European empires ruthless domination of the world.

The US is holding on tight but is over-extended (count the military bases), and seems to not to want to bow out with grace. As you may have realized, this darkness has got to give.

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Jan 22, 2010 4:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

Which goes to my original point that all wars are fought for power and money, not religion.

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Poster: spacedface Date: Jan 20, 2010 3:43pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Whats so damn atheistical about the dead?

And since I live here, I'd rather go out in grace, being generous in body and spirit.

That would mean basically holding true to our principles. Right now we're flirting with disaster and exposing ourselves and children to instabilities that could lead to movements and opportunities for criminal leadership even beyond the Cheneyesque, with powers that would make Hitler blush.

If we end up with a fundamentalist FrankenBarbie, we could only assume we are being punished by God and exposed as a laughing stock, and in a world of trouble.